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Need feedback on workflow
  • ahblezaahbleza

    Hi there,

    I am inexperienced with post production apart from basic NLEs, but have been tasked to put together a suggested workflow for a feature film suitable for cinema distribution. My requirements are as follows:

    a) The original footage is recorded with BlackMagic cameras in Cinema DNG raw with 1.33 anamorphic LA7200 adaptors.

    b) The result should include a DCP, Blu Ray and on-line 4K format suitable for VOD resale.

    c) I've selected Da Vinci Resolve and FCPX as the NLE, because that's what I know.

    d) The VFX pipeline has not been locked -- that will depend on the VFX house we use. Maybe AE or Nuke?

    e) I'd like to use WindMotion to upscale to 4K, and for Noise Reduction.

    I've put together some notes on the workflow, but have a lot of questions. For example, it's not clear exactly the order in which some things should be done. I assume VFX is added before the color grading, but don't know whether that should be done on a LT ProRes proxy version, or whether we should transcode the raw to ProRes 4444 and work only with those? Should I use DPX for the VFX pipeline, or ProRes 4444?

    Anyway, I'm posting my notes below, and would welcome your suggestions and corrections, since I'm very new at this. Thanks!

    --

    1. Initial DIT captures all film as Cinema DNG raw (compressed, 12 bit, 1080p24), with accompanying reference audio (wav) file, and a selection of WAV audio tracks (between two and four tracks) of separate audio. Note that timecode has NOT been used, therefore all sound must be manually synchronized (using e.g. Pluraleyes or the built-in synch in the NLE.)

    2. A light grade is applied to all the Cinema DNG files using Da Vinci Resolve v10 Lite. At this stage, all anamorphic captures are desqueezed to 2.35 aspect ratio, resulting in 2554x1080 @24p images. ProRes LT proxies are created by the DIT using DVR10, with the initial grade. Some non-anamorphic material may be cropped to provide the 2.35:1 aspect ratio (since some material was captured non-anamorphic.)

    3. The ProRes proxies are loaded into Final Cut Professional 10 (FCPX) for the initial assembly edit. Audio files are synced at this time using FCPX and/or Pluraleyes are required.

    4. Noise reduction is applied to the FCPX proxies using Neat Video plugin. Note that this will be repeated later with the graded footage in a higher bitrate version.

    5. The assembly edit is completed with FCPX, to produce a first edit lock version for VFX.

    6. An initial audio mix is prepared. This will include addition of Foley and ADR tracks, that will come from the production process. Some additional Foley may be added at this stage, along with basic fixes to sound.

    7. DPX versions of clips requiring VFX will be exported from the NLE. Before this can be done, highest quality ProRes 4444 versions of the raw Cinema DNG footage should be transcoded using DVR10, and relinked into the NLE for the export of the clips. QUESTION: Should we use FCPX/Compressor or DVR10 to generate the DPX for VFX? OR will the VFX pipeline use ProRes 4444 directly?

    8. The finished VFX shots (perhaps as ProRes?) will be rendered by the VFX pipeline, and brought back into the NLE for inclusion in the final edit. Some frames may need to be trimmed to ensure timing is correct.

    9. Final sounding mixing and audio mastering is now completed, combined with the music/score. This might use Logic Pro or a similar tool chain, depending on the preferences of the audio master team.

    10. The final edit with VFX is generated as ProRes 4444 and exported to DVR10 for the color grading. The color grade is completed, and re-exported again as ProRes 4444.

    11. A tool such as Windmotion is used to upscale the footage to 4K, while maintaining 4444 color space as 12 bits. At this stage, additional noise reduction and/or sharpening may be applied to selected parts of the footage.

    12. The 4K master is now combined with the final audio mix, which is mastered to Dolby Cinema 5.1. (No licensing fee is now required.) This is used to create the DCP for festival use with the 5.1 audio track. Additionally, a Blu Ray master is created, both in disk format and within a MKV container. This may use H.264, or possibly H.265 if this is available.

  • 7 Replies sorted by
  • RRRRRRRR

    When it comes to VFX, doesn´t it make sense to talk to your preferred source(s) what they prefer?

  • ahblezaahbleza

    @RRRR I don't have a VFX source yet. I'm going to be shopping around, and would like to understand what the options are, based on the experience of others.

    I'm assuming that 12-bit ProRes 4444 HQ is going to deliver the best results for VFX and color grading work -- but wanted to ask others who have done this.

    While I understand that DVR10 will work happily with all 12 bits, I wonder if the 10 bit space is enough for the VFX work -- but then how do I best combine that?

  • RRRRRRRR

    You´ll want to keep your bits. :) Keep in mind that prores does degrade quite a bit with new renditions. Cineform might be better as an intermediate if it works for the people involved.

    Personally, I´d go after talent and decide on a VFX house / guy to work with beforehand, based on merit / skill. But maybe that´s not an option. I´d go with resolve for processing the raw footage.

    Then again, there are propably others out there who´ve done way more of such work to be in a better position for input.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    Noise reduction is applied to the FCPX proxies using Neat Video plugin.

    I don't get it, why would you denoise the proxies?

    The other thing you might consider is to upscale the final edit version to 4K (perhaps with some noise dithering etc), and do the VFX and color grading in 4K.

  • ahblezaahbleza

    @inqb8tr Because the Director freaked out when he saw the noise in the proxies, so I wanted to give him a cleaner view during the edit.

    Yes, included in step 11 of my workflow is the use of Windmotion for upscaling to 4K. Are there advantages with doing the grading and VFX at 4K? I thought that many VFX houses recommend VFX at a lower size, because at 4K the render pipeline consumes too many resources compared to the effective visual benefits.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    hahah, well if it would take longer to explain to him that those are the proxies, then go on with denoising ;)

    because at 4K the render pipeline consumes too many resources compared to the effective visual benefits.

    Well that makes sense. I'm actually not sure about grading, but I just follow the pattern that less pushed and crushed footage will upscale better, with less artifacts etc. but I don't have any experience with Windmotion.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    @ahbleza

    About grading. I talked today with few friends and colleagues who have upscaled and graded, similar situation to yours, because I was curious too. And they were mostly on the side of upscaling first, but they were also very cautious and performed several tests beforehand. Sometimes, upscaled footage fell apart in grading and they decided to grade first.

    So, it all depends on the footage and specific material and demands and it is very hard to came up with a general rule. Since you have your footage and software available, you caould probably do some tests with most demanding shots and check out how it comes out.

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