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Good quote: Even more on religion
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    In modern capitalist countries religion roots are mainly social. The deepest root of religion today is the socially downtrodden condition of the working masses and their apparently complete helplessness in face of the blind forces of capitalism, which every day and every hour inflicts upon ordinary working people the most horrible suffering and the most savage torment, a thousand times more severe than those inflicted by extra-ordinary events, such as wars, earthquakes, etc. “Fear made the gods.” Fear of the blind force of capital—blind because it cannot be foreseen by the masses of the people—a force which at every step in the life of the proletarian and small proprietor threatens to inflict, and does inflict “sudden”, “unexpected”, “accidental” ruin, destruction, pauperism, prostitution, death from starvation—such is the root of modern religion which the materialist must bear in mind first and foremost, if he does not want to remain an infant-school materialist. No educational book can eradicate religion from the minds of masses who are crushed by capitalist hard labour, and who are at the mercy of the blind destructive forces of capitalism, until those masses themselves learn to fight this root of religion, fight the rule of capital in all its forms, in a united, organized, planned and conscious way.

    V. Lenin

  • 17 Replies sorted by
  • caveportcaveport

    For the state to wither away completely, complete communism is necessary.

    V. Lenin

    Unfortunately human nature stops the success of the stated goals of communism every time it is put into practice. No communist government has ever allowed itself to relinquish control of the population, hence communism suffers the same problems as capitalism; control of the working masses. The communist officials become the 'pigs' in George Orwell's Animal Farm. ALL political systems suffer from this problem. North Korea is a perfect example of 'complete communism'.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    You provided good quote, and after this slipped to real deeps.

    Unfortunately human nature stops the success of the stated goals of communism every time it is put into practice. No communist government has ever allowed itself to relinquish control of the population, hence communism suffers the same problems as capitalism; control of the working masses.

    First, you couldn't write anything less original :-)

    Second, you do not understand terms you use, unfortunately. Hence statements become utterly fun.

    The communist officials become the 'pigs' in George Orwell's Animal Farm. ALL political systems suffer from this problem.

    Knowledge is always good, for example George Orwell Animals Farm story is actually based on Russian story "Animal Revolt" first published in reactionary journal before revolution in mid 1917 (was written much more early, found in archives of Kostomarov). And it protected..surprise... feudalism, czatism and peasants ownership.

    North Korea is a perfect example of 'complete communism'.

    I told you already. Need to understand terms you use, otherwise you look bad.

  • endotoxicendotoxic

    Dear caveport.

    Masses must be controled one way or another. It will continue for ever.

    Use whatever term you like. There will be allways a ruling class.

    Sheeps must stay stupid so we can send dogs to get easy wool. Imagine if sheep enter a concious state. What a problem to get the goods, o dear, the wool will get ruined.

    Neither sheep nor ruler will get any benefit from revolution. Just caos for another state for future control by ruling class at best.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @endotoxic

    You are in bad mood today. Plus some deep dark reaction made the nest in your head. I am fully sure you do not consider sheep yourself, but others, not so good guys. :-)

    Please read topic title.

  • endotoxicendotoxic

    You read me well my friend. Im in a bad mood.

    Clients wife and timing never gets well together. More if money for the children is on hack.

    Well you put me a good stop. Thanks.

  • caveportcaveport

    @Vitaliy "I told you already. Need to understand terms you use, otherwise you look bad."

    No, I disagree. I think I look really fabulous!

    My statements are utterly fun..... whatever the f*ck that means.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @caveport

    Now you look really stupid :-)

  • joetheprojoethepro

    Are you trying to suggest that the only people who feel like they need religion are those in capitalist societies, or at least that capitalist societies have driven people to cling to fairy tales as a source of hope? I would think that someone who ruled (or attempted to), in his own words, "based directly upon force, and unrestricted by any laws” would drive people to religion as a last resort of hope as well.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    or at least that capitalist societies have driven people to cling to fairy tales as a source of hope

    Class societies. You need religion or some other fairy tale to be sane in such world.

    I would think that someone who ruled (or attempted to), in his own words, "based directly upon force, and unrestricted by any laws” would drive people to religion as a last resort of hope as well.

    Have no idea that this means. Must be another reciting of US school education mantras considering "awful totalitarism" being very deep in the head.

  • joetheprojoethepro
    Have no idea that this means. Must be another reciting of US school education mantras considering "awful totalitarism" being very deep in the head.

    I was never directly taught anything about "awful totalitarianism" in school. Common sense is enough to discern that it is a bad system. My quote in the previous post was Lenin's own words about dictatorship. Further:

    ...whoever expects that socialism will be achieved without a social revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat is not a socialist. Dictatorship is state power based directly on violence. - V. Lenin

    You don't think an extreme ideology like that wouldn't drive at least some people to despair and thus religion? Totalitarian regimes are never good for everyone. (I'm not defending capitalism in regards to the topic, by the way.) Where are you going with this, Vitaliy?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    You don't think an extreme ideology like that wouldn't drive at least some people to despair and thus religion? Totalitarian regimes are never good for everyone. Where are you going with this, Vitaliy?

    I am going to make you read and not play with words you do not understand (for now). And to make you stop using "common sense" you love so much.

    You lived whole your life during dictatorship, dictatorship of bourgeoisie.

    And need to understand history and origin of word "totalitarian " used by capitalist exploiters classes in their propaganda against working people.

  • joetheprojoethepro

    How I feel right now:
    image

    I am going to make you read and not play with words you do not understand (for now).

    I am going to make you read and not play with words you do not understand (for now). :)

    You lived whole your life during dictatorship, dictatorship of bourgeoisie.

    I agree, to an extent.

    And need to understand history and origin of word "totalitarian " used by capitalist exploiters classes in their propaganda against working people.

    History and current affairs define it just fine. As did Lenin.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @joethepro

    Exactly :-)

    As you do not want to read and gain knowledge, just think it is smart to use "common sense" that rely on remains of education and mass media data that reside in our brain.

    It is not looking smart to play with words you do not understand. As well as not understanding basics logic. It looks extremely sad.

  • joetheprojoethepro

    You are being very presumptuous. You offer no counter argument and simply state that those who disagree with you are uneducated and look silly. Not very a productive response... Why not provide evidence to counter things I am saying?

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @joethepro

    Again, you do not even read posts.

    Never told that you or anyone else are uneducated. You are quite well "educated" as you translate me exactly school books and mass media stamps.

    I told what to keep discussion useful you need to read. It'll be still lot of media and educational remains, it'll be still lot of errors, but such way it is possible to go step by step.

    I can provide some guidance or help, but I am not here to argue, and not here to listen how "you do not agree" because it is "common sense". It does not interest me to talk on this level. Especially as I know how much better your brain is able to perform if fed with useful data.

  • joetheprojoethepro
    Never told that you or anyone else are uneducated.

    You strongly imply it in your phrasing. But that is subjective and not worth discussing, I suppose.

    You are quite well "educated" as you translate me exactly school books and mass media stamps.

    Again with the presumption. You don't know where I source my information.

    I can provide some guidance or help, but I am not here to argue...

    No one is arguing. I have provided quotes and information from my research/understanding in reference to the OP. I have also defended my posts after you make accusations and assertions without presenting anything to back them up.

    If you want to have a healthy discussion (which I assume you do, otherwise why make this post at all), perhaps try backing up your responses with some evidence or links to reading material instead of telling people they don't understand that which they are discussing. That is a purely subjective response which doesn't further the quality of the thread...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Again with the presumption. You don't know where I source my information.

    Well, if you did not attained school and lived in lonely house in the middle of nowhere reading something so bad... I stand corrected in this case.

    If you want to have a healthy discussion (which I assume you do, otherwise why make this post at all), perhaps try backing up your responses with some evidence or links to reading material instead of telling people they don't understand that which they are discussing. That is a purely subjective response which doesn't further the quality of the thread...

    Perhaps it is time to start behaving like adult and not child. Check topic title. Start searching for works from where quotes originate if nothing else helps. Read. Search for things you not understand. Read again.

    So, topic closed due to extremely disappointing level and not understanding basics of economic and politics posts on PV.

This topic is closed.
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