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Panasonic 4k Codec Breaks: 100Mbps is not enough
  • apefosapefos

    Panasonic 4k Lumix cameras could have a little more datarate...

    In every last two B frames in the each GOP the image breaks into some mud when there are details.

    It seems Panasonic is using GOP 12: " IBB PBB PBB PBB " and in the last two "BB" frames the codec does not handle the image.

    This issue keeps repeating two times each second and makes the image jumps two times each second, very annoying.

    See the frame grabs from G7 4k footage (a crop from 4k frames), the P frame is ok, the I frame is ok, but the B frames are bad:

    1-p10.jpg
    477 x 303 - 79K
    2-b11.jpg
    483 x 292 - 78K
    3-b12.jpg
    487 x 298 - 81K
    4-i13.jpg
    482 x 292 - 79K
  • 13 Replies sorted by
  • scotchtapescotchtape

    It's bad :( I just bought one and have been testing it out, I haven't really noticed this though. Except that I still get the greenish / yellowish skin tones sometimes. But it's the best looking color out of any Panny cam I've seen online.

    What are you watching or editing in? That looks REALLY bad. I just shot a water fountain in 4K 24p and I didn't notice any artifacting that bad (not saying it isn't there).

  • VeskuVesku

    I have shooted with high shutter speed with my GH4 and I often watch stopped frames. I have not seen bad frames in 4k 30P, just little macro blocking in difficult frames. Is it possible that GH4 has somehow better codec than G7?

  • apefosapefos

    Software behavior:

    ShotCut: shows all frames in timeline, shows all frames in render file, four frames are bad in each second, two in the end of each gop.

    Premiere: shows all frames in timeline, shows all frames in render file, four frames are bad in each second, two in the end of each gop.

    5DtoRGB converter: the converted file skips 4 frames in each second, two in the end of each gop. Does not show bad frames because it skips them, converted video skips frames (unaceptable).

  • apefosapefos

    GH4 has 4k recording in MOV and in MP4. Maybe Panasonic did the MOV codec settings better than MP4? Or maybe the MP4 in GH4 is better than the MP4 in G7? I dont know.

    edit: I downloaded some gh4 mp4 original footage and it does not show the problem... is it a problem from G7???

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I'm not seeing this.....

  • caveportcaveport

    My GH4 has never had the issues you describe here and I think it is presumptuous to use the topic title "Panasonic 4k Codec Breaks: 100Mbps is not enough". The Panasonic 4K codec has been superb for me in all kinds of shooting conditions. I think you have some other issue.

  • apefosapefos

    The footage I saw the problem was from G7 original files uploaded to vimeo by Camerlabs review.

    The problem shows up when there are lots of details in the image, the beach full of small rocks and people walking.

    Maybe the codec on G7 is worst compared to GH4...

  • caveportcaveport

    Codec is the same. Maybe the internal processing is different. Maybe the camera operator screwed up. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I have never seen this issue on GH4 footage, and I've been editing & grading other people's GH4 footage since the camera was released, probably over 100+ hours of all kinds of shooting conditions and setups. Some 4K, some HD.

  • apefosapefos

    I downloaded lots of original footage from Cameralabs reviews on vimeo, and I compared different Panasonic cameras.

    The G7, the G80/G85 and the GX80/GX85, all shows the problem. There are glitches in the image around people walking on the beach. You must look close and carefully to perceive it, in a 4k monitor. Three different cameras showing the same problem, in the player and in the editing timeline, is enough for the conclusion about the weak codec.

    The beach footage is very detailed, small rocks in the floor and people walking, the people are small in the image, so it is very difficult to the codec to keep the quality in this situation. When people are walking with a flat surface behind there are no glitches, but when the background is detailed the glitches show up surrounding the moving people.

    Considering my developing in the GH2 patches, I think it is possible to make a 100Mbps 4k codec without this issue, but it seems Panasonic is implementing a weak codec in the G cameras intentionally to protect the high end camera market.

    I also saw some GH4 footage from the same beach scene, and I did not see glitches, so the codec in the G cameras is worst compared to GH4. But the noise in high iso from GH4 footage is pulsing in a different cadence compared to the frame rate, it seems the frame rate in the noise is lower compared to the footage framerate, but not annoying compared to the G cameras glitches.

    This bad thing is a price to pay for consumer 100Mbps G camera.

    No hack = no free lunch.

  • caveportcaveport

    Yeah, the codec is so weak. I think everyone should sell all their Panasonic cameras to send Panasonic a message. Maybe YOU should contact Panasonic about this issue and stop moaning on Internet forums.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @caveport

    Calm down.

  • apefosapefos

    Panasonic cheap G 4k cameras are for smart people with comercial decisions, not for artists with aesthetic decisions pursuing perfection.

    Think like this: I need 4k, there is a market for 4k videos, I am on a low budget, I need to work, so... Panasonic G cameras.

  • caveportcaveport

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev OK

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