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What is the best type of monitor to watch videos
  • VeskuVesku

    I have a very good IPS LCD monitor and a plasma tv hooked to my computer. I can compare videos easily with both screens and plasma screen gives better video quality in generally. What are your experiences?

  • 31 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Best monitor is one with proper calibration :-)
    Good plasma usually show more lifelike image with less noticeable noise and such.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I have to say I still like very much my $300 27 inch IPS monitor from Korea (there is a long thread on this), and the newer ones look good as well. Without the calibration, it would be useless. I always preview stuff on the TV, also calibrated.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @DrDave I have of these and love it. Mine is matte though due to my environment

  • VeskuVesku

    I dont know if this is new information to anyone but it was to me.

    Thing is that a normal computer monitor could not show sharp motion. This issue (blurred motion in computer LCD) is caused by eye/brain phenomenom called: "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring"

    Due to this one can not see all the benefits of 60P sharp motion with computer monitor. Even if response time would be 0ms the situation would be the same. Scanning or stobing backlight technique is the only way to fool eye/brain to see all the details in movement. See explanation:

    http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Vesku

    For me link has some flawed logic (including completely incorrect data about LCD response times) and is from proponents of 120Hz monitors.

  • VeskuVesku

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Did you get the idea of this "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring"? Response time has nothing to do with it. I have studied and tested this issue and it is true.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Their logic and illustrations are from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463407.aspx

    If you spend little time you will see completely inaccurate and flawed logic.

    Statement that CRT is ideal device comes from stupid logic that at each time CRT beams display actual pixel (that is updated at some very high frame rate). It is not so. Your card has frame buffer and almost always it works exactly like LCD sending whole frame.

    Again. For eye tracking blurring superiority of CRT you need special organization of whole path (read, complete software and hardware redesign). For 3D games it also require changing whole rendering logic (as it renders whole frame to frame buffer).

    Such papers appeared especially during early LCD panels time, because their pixel change rates were very low.

    Also paper states 1ms or even 0ms times for LCD, it is complete bullshit if you check any serious test.

  • VeskuVesku

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Thanks for interest for this matter.

    Lets forget CRTs. This issue is with computer LCDs. I think that "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring" may be new to you too.

    Very rapid frame flickering in plasma or very rapid backlight scanning in new LCD TVs is solution for blurred motion. Response time has little meaning in this. This issue is eye/brain related and rapid frame strobing fools brain to get illusion of sharp motion.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I think that "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring" may be new to you too.

    It is not new. Just remove all marketing bullshit and use your logic and knowledge.

    Learn to separate bullshit from requirements to show you accurate picture of captured video. None of your referenced information have direct relation to it.

    Very rapid frame flickering in plasma or very rapid backlight scanning in new LCD TVs is solution for blurred motion. Response time has little meaning in this. This issue is eye/brain related and rapid frame strobing fools brain to get illusion of sharp motion.

    Read something about plasma technology.

    Also most of the description of eye saccades and image processing by brain your referenced source is fully inaccurate.

  • VeskuVesku

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    My ideas are obviously not getting many fans in this forum :)

    How can you explain video softening in normal LCD screen? Individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft.

    What do you think why biggest TV makers use all rapid scanning backlight technology in LCD TVs? Is it cheaper to make or is it just a marketing trick?

    What does your eyes say?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    How can you explain video softening in normal LCD screen? Individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft.

    Open any serious monitors/TV tests and check response times measured for all colors/shades.

    After this go and buy book about mind and specifically how image processing works from retina to nerve to preprocessing, etc. To be short - motion sharpness is made up thing and depend mostly on the model made by our mind and prediction accuracy (in real world).

  • VeskuVesku

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    From that Wikipedia page:

    "Motion blur has been a more severe problem for LCD displays, due to their sample-and-hold nature.[3] Even in situations when pixel response time is very short, motion blur remains a problem because their pixels remain lit, unlike CRT or PLASMA phosphors that merely flash briefly. Reducing the time an LCD pixel is lit, can be accomplished via turning off the backlight for part of a refresh.[4] This reduces motion blur due to eye tracking by decreasing the time the backlight is on. In addition, strobed backlights can also be combined together with motion interpolation to reduce eye-tracking based motion blur."

    My LCD has 5ms response time and it shows sharp individual frames in motion. But because pixels remain the same every 1/60th second eye/brain gets confused because it predicts motion but the frame is still the same all that 1/60s. A friend took photo burst (400fps) with Nikon V1 of LCD screen motion test. Result is that this cheap LCD showed sharp frames during test but seeing the motion was still soft.

    He writes:

    " I recorded this "Response time test - ghosting" test with Nikon V1 with 400 fps video mode. It shows that my computer monitor running at 60Hz is showing the moving pattern keeping sharp. Still it gets blurry in my eyes if I try to follow it. I checked it in video editor and it seems like it takes 7,5 ms for a line to change from black to white and 20 ms from white to black. This is affecting only the first and last bar in the pattern since other bars in the middle keeps stable time as seen in the video.

    I guess the picture gets blurry due to slowness and "memory" phenomenon of eye/brain."

    Original motion test:

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php#response_time_gif

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    My LCD has 5ms response time and it shows sharp individual frames in motion. But because pixels remain the same every 1/60th second eye/brain gets confused because it predicts motion but the frame is still the same all that 1/60s. A friend took photo burst (400fps) with Nikon V1 of LCD screen motion test. Result is that this cheap LCD showed sharp frames during test but seeing the motion was still soft.

    Now go back and read that I wrote. Think on it carefully.

    I guess the picture gets blurry due to slowness and "memory" phenomenon of eye/brain."

    I guess that in this case it must be same blurry on plasma and CRT due to way the image is actually displayed on them. Otherwise - read books, not Wikipedia or forums.

  • VeskuVesku

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    I was surprised when I figured this issue. It is a little confusing but it is documented well and reasonably and my empiric tests proofs it.

    I suggest that you think this again:

    How can you explain video softening in LCD screen when individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    How can you explain video softening in LCD screen when individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft?

    May be it is god related issue? :-)

  • VeskuVesku

    http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labsite/2010/psych221/projects/2010/LievenVerslegers/LCD_Motion_Blur_Lieven_Verslegers.htm

    http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433254/lcd-motion-blur-eye-tracking-now-dominant-cause-of-motion-blur-not-pixel-transition-gtg

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    First link is student project.

    Second link is by the same BlurBusters guy, just copy and paste.

    We really need to stop this offtopic, as it can transform to something like huge threads about jitter on audio forums with guys spending thousands fighting with with ghosts :-)

  • VeskuVesku

    So you say this phenomenom is not real. I am confused because to me it is very clear. One more example.

    http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking&pattern=lines1

    When watching ufo in the center, vertical lines are sharp. When following moving ufo same vertical sharp lines becomes soft due to eye/brain, not response time. Plasma screen has no this kind of softening because of image "strobing".

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    You can make separate topic in Offtopic category.

    As for me - it is simple. Wasting time to this "problem" (if you check, guy who spreads it lives on it) is useless.

  • VeskuVesku

    I dont think it is offtopic.

    Most of the people are video oriented here. How can issue about monitor video motion quality be offtopic. Why doing lots of IQ improvement in video shooting and then not caring how to watch videos? Obviously not many are interested about this matter. But on the other hand not many here are not shooting 60P and want to enjoy sharp and fluid motion in video.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Vesku

    I told you my suggestion. This topic is already ruined without any respect to topic author. So, either make specific topic or just stop.

  • VeskuVesku

    OK I make a new offtopic topic. Sorry for trouble.

  • joetheprojoethepro

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Good lord, man, why are you being so harsh? @Vesku started a very valid thread and is having an interesting discussion, and you are being extremely rude, condescending, and argumentative. I guess you aren't one to lead by example. This is not the first, second, or third time I've seen this behavior from you, and its very disappointing and makes me want to disregard everything you say and leave the forum. Slow down. Think on it.

  • 3Kids3Kids

    So you prefer incomplete sources and semi educated discussions? And how are these going to help you exactly? Cognitive systems and interactive media (along with their many sub-subjects) is a fascinating field, but you need proper approach, not guesstimating..Edit: Researching involves reading, searching and then evaluating and choosing your sources, otherwise it's just googling..

  • joetheprojoethepro

    Everyone has to learn at some point. Vesku is trying, and researching. He was asking questions and prodding for more information and other opinions. Condescending rudeness is not and effective teaching method. This is his topic, unnecessary to force a new "off" topic about the same thing.

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